[3:25:47 AM] DarkShadows: I think the Operator is a metaphor for mental illness. Look what happens in MH. It's basically the story of four young men who suffer from crippling mental disorders. The symptoms the Operator causes for people hearken back to this (except the coughing). The fact that people slowly lose their mind through the story also goes back to this. In the end, Alex succumbs to his mental illness. He refuses to "take the medicine" so to speak and ends up harming himself and others, and eventually dying. Jay fights it for much longer, but also does not succeed and ends up dead simply because he does not listen to the advice of his friend Tim, who tries to warn him that if he doesn't get help then the problem will get worse (as mental diseases do). Brian and Tim were already suffering from mental illnesses, but Brian never overcame his. Tim snapped out of it just long enough to realize his actions were not sane, and they were hurting people. So, he got help. He got better. He relapsed because Jay pulled him into confronting his actual issue again instead of letting it fall by the wayside, but even then Tim held on strong enough to prevent a complete relapse. Tim succeeded in the end because he held onto the idea that there is hope, there is a way of getting better, there is a way out. Marble Hornets therefore is a story about mental illness and how to deal with it - first by showing how someone who falls into it should NOT deal with it, and then by also showing how someone already in it SHOULD deal with it. That said, what have we learned from MH about this?
- When friends say you need help, you need help.
- Take your goddamn medication if you're on it.
- You can't always trust what someone says or does when they are not in their right mind.
- Mental illness can be crippling and unrelenting, and even with help it never fully is cured, only managed.
[3:27:35 AM] DarkShadows: I just felt there was a very, very strong theme of mental illness and learning to cope with it in MH. Maybe it's because I've basically been in and out of therapy my whole life, IDK. But that's what I read it as. Tim is easily also one of the best examples of a mentally ill character who is relatable, sympathetic, and a genuine person. Too many things in the media do not portray mentally ill people favorably. Tim fucks up, Tim has his issues, and Tim eventually learns to deal with them however scary or horrible they are.
[3:29:09 AM | Edited 3:29:14 AM] AIDAN : What about that time he kept Jessica secret from J for two years?
[3:29:20 AM] DarkShadows: Think about it this way. Jessica was an enabler.
[3:29:43 AM] A: Maybe...but it was also a major cause of Jay's breakdown - the grief.
[3:30:12 AM] A: I understand Tim's reasoning but disagree with his choice.
[3:30:29 AM] DarkShadows: Jessica was essentially a human form of a delusion for Jay. She was never something attainable. Tim knew that if Jay found that out, it would ruin him. He basically did what anyone would do - he tried to hide it. He couldn't. I disagree with his choice as well.
[3:30:40 AM] DarkShadows: I'm not saying what he did was good, I'm saying as a character he's relateable.
[3:30:50 AM] A: oh definitely.
[3:30:57 AM] DarkShadows: Everyone in MH did some really, really morally questionable things actually.
[3:31:37 AM | Edited 3:31:49 AM] A: I actually think [Tim]Masky was the most morally white character.
[3:32:28 AM] DarkShadows: Nobody in that series was sane, at all. I think Tim had an upper hand though because he's been dealing with this shit since childhood. He basically already had some coping skills to deal with the whole Operator thing, which IS his mental illness as we have established.
[3:32:49 AM] DarkShadows: Why do we ask for help? because we realize we've fallen down.
[3:32:54 AM] A: What you're saying is his acceptance gave him an advantage.
[3:32:57 AM] DarkShadows: Yes. So while everyone else continued to decline, Tim essentially got a bit better. When Tim tries to throw the mask away at the end and then goes back for it, that shows that despite what he tries, his mental illness is part of him. He can't get rid of it so he might as well as embrace it.
[3:34:07 AM] DarkShadows: Every character had their own story arc. That was Tim's.
[3:34:20 AM] A: I don't think embrace it, I think more like "become reliant on".
[3:34:30 AM] DarkShadows: I disagree.
[3:35:07 AM] DarkShadows: Notice Masky never does come back. My theory is that Tim keeps the mask as a reminder of why he tried so hard to get better in the first place. He doesn't wanna be in that dark place he was ever again.
[3:35:21 AM] A: A mental crutch of sorts, he didn't ask for it. It became him. Once you are part of something like that you shape yourself around it.
[3:35:26 AM] DarkShadows: Yes.
[3:35:39 AM] DarkShadows: A painful piece of yourself, but a piece of yourself nonetheless.
[3:35:52 AM] A: He, unfortunately, was as much Masky as Masky was Tim.
[3:36:04 AM] DarkShadows: Is that unfortunate though?
[3:36:16 AM] A: Yes, he didn't want it. He was forced into a state of near insanity.
[3:36:31 AM] DarkShadows: Nobody wants to be mentally ill, dude...
[3:36:32 AM] A: he almost killed two people. Why would he want that? And its unfortunate that he was put in that position [to start with].
[3:37:47 AM] DarkShadows: you're not getting at what I am. I'm saying that at first, Tim hated the fact he had this awful side to him. Because he nearly killed two people. Because he hurt a lot more. Because he's never really been sane. That tortured him. By the end of the series though, Tim has learned to realize that, as painful as it is, Masky and all he did as Masky is part of him. Masky is another representation of Tim's mental illness, the part Tim does not want to face and hates, but by the end of the series, he's learned to accept.
[3:38:51 AM] A: and what I am saying is that it is unfortunate he was put into a position where that was part of him to begin with. Yes, he had to accept it, but no one should have that kind of mental stress put on them.
[3:38:58 AM] DarkShadows: Yes, I agree.
[3:39:21 AM] DarkShadows: But you're also assuming that the Operator is not a metaphor. I am speaking from the POV of the Operator being a symbol. XD
[3:39:31 AM] DarkShadows: I'm doing some literature dissection. That's all.
[3:39:38 AM] A: I do tend to think more in the literal.
[3:39:50 AM] DarkShadows: Yeah and I think more symbolically. XD
[3:40:22 AM] DarkShadows: LITERALLY speaking, you are right. Tim's hands were tied. everyone's hands were tied. Why? Well probably because the Operator had some agenda. What that agenda is, we just dunno and we never will. It's possible he just wanted everyone dead. It's also possible he was just seeing what would happen. It's even possible that he only really cared about Tim's end of the story this whole time, and all these other people got wrapped up in it.
[3:41:58 AM] DarkShadows: I'm of the opinion, speaking literally, that the Operator really just wanted to see what would happen. he took an interest in Tim at a young age. He Proxified Tim at a young age. Therefore, of course he's gonna keep an eye on Tim. He's interested in seeing what Tim does with this new status.
[3:42:13 AM] A: Well I do also mean from a mental perspective of the unfortunate thing that is mental illness, and with rare schizophrenia like that, dual personalities is one of the worst things, that thought that the one thing that is truly yours, your mind, is host to something you loathe.
[3:42:24 AM] DarkShadows: yes,you're right.
[3:43:01 AM] A: It would terrifying, to think that if he ever couldn't afford his meds, he wouldn't get to own his body. Something ruthless and cold would take it over, and [he] wouldn't remember who saw [his] face staring them down in horror.
[3:44:06 AM] DarkShadows: Which is another reason I think the ending is about Tim finding a way of accepting that part of himself. Instead of running from it like Jay did, or just accepting it like Brian and Alex did and losing himself entirely, he found a balance. Yes he does have to worry about the meds thing, and that was brought up.
[3:44:27 AM] DarkShadows: So really... the pill bottle is a symbol of control. Which... think about this. Pill. Pills sometimes are round, especially many anti-psychotics. X through a circular pill... Operator symbol. The symbolic lack of control. The nullification of control. Over yourself, over your state of mind, over everything.
[3:45:41 AM] A: And that would explain Brian using it. He accepted the loss of control
[3:45:50 AM] DarkShadows: Yes. So did Alex.
[3:46:30 AM] A: And Masky, since he wanted Tim to lose control, not entirely i don't think... but just enough.
[3:46:38 AM] DarkShadows: Masky is Tim, though. Masky is Tim without any control.
[3:47:21 AM] A: That's a maybe, is he though? Is he Tim or is he another sentient being? He thinks different; acts different.
[3:47:35 AM] DarkShadows: I dunno if it's ever exactly clarified *what* disorder Tim suffers from. Some say schizophrenia, some say DID.
[3:47:48 AM] DarkShadows: People do think and act different when they're mentally ill. Their brains don't operate normally. That doesn't mean who they are when they're not under control is someone/something else.
[3:48:36 AM] A: True, and I suppose we never get to know. That's something only Tim really knows.
[3:49:13 AM] DarkShadows: It depends what exactly Tim's diagnosis is. So, decide for yourself. If it's Schizophrenia or an anxiety disorder of some kind, I'm likely right. If it's DID, you're probably right.
[3:50:11 AM] A: It's funny, even the channel had another side to its illness, ToTheArk.
[3:50:42 AM] DarkShadows: Even Tim yelling at Alex in the penultimate episode, "Stop, this is what it wants". Meaning, this is what Alex's illness wants in a sense. Tim was literally pleading with Alex to control his illness and get help. Tim was trying to help him. Because Tim went through that, he lost his friend to that, he lost Jay to that.
[3:51:23 AM] A: He lost everyone [to that].
[3:51:28 AM] DarkShadows: Pretty damn much.